Imagine if, in the aftermath of Israel’s genocide – and due to chronic persecution of Palestinians by Israelis – nearly a dozen UN member nations, but not the USA, decided to plant a Palestinian state in … greater Dearborn, Michigan.
LOL bro if you want MidEast peace, you can start by stopping the attempts to rewrite history to make Arab colonizers "indigenous natives." Hundreds of thousands of Arabs immigrated to Palestine in the 20th century alone, and they rejected partition because like most colonizers they wanted all of the land for themselves and themselves alone. Your historical rewrite "forgot" to mention the Peel Commission Plan, which would have given the indigenous Jews far less land than the Arabs, but the Arabs STILL rejected it because they wanted the whole thing.
If you want peace, lose this "we're victims of foreign colonizers and the evil Jews stole our homeland" BS. It's perpetuating hatreds and spreading lies.
Here's how you make peace! Just tell the Palestinians that they're right about everything and they've never done anything wrong and their homeland was totally stolen from them by evil colonizing Zionists and they should keep fighting forever until they get all of it for themselves and push the Zionists out of the Middle East. That's how you make peace, dude!
False. Robust genetic studies show that the Palestinians are the genetic descendants of the Canaanites, who inhabited the Levant before Judaism was even started. Only the Lebanese show more homology with Canaanite DNA than the Palestinians do. The genetic evidence proves that the Palestinians' ancestors have been there for thousands of years.
Lots of folks have Canaanite DNA, Ros, and Canaanites are from all over the Levant. That doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of Arabs get to just waltz into Palestine in the 1940s and declare themselves the indigenous natives.
According to a 2010 study by Behar et al. titled "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people", in one analysis, Palestinians tested clustered genetically close to Bedouins, Jordanians and Saudi Arabians which was described as "consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula". That's genetic studies, brah. Your criteria, not mine, brah.
"Only the Lebanese show more homology with Canaanite DNA than the Palestinians do. "
Oh shit, brah. Guess all those Palestinians better clear out for the true indigenous natives, the Lebanese!
Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are descendants of the Canaanites, Winnie.
Thousands of Arabs did not settle in Palestine in the 1940s. On the contrary, some 750,000 indigenous Palestinians got driven out at gunpoint by Zionazis.
You know who doesn't have ANY Canaanite DNA, Winnie? 97.5% of Ashkenazi Jews...the Zionazis who invaded the Levant and drove 750,000 indigenous Palestinians out in the Nakba.
That's a stupid analogy. Dearborn, Michigan is not the ancient ancestral home of the Palestinian people. I thought you were supposed to be a Jew? Don't you know the first thing about Jewish history?
It isn't a stupid analogy. Most of the current Jews are not descendants of the Israelites, so it's not their ancient ancestral home ( Look up the 1980 Jewish Almanac ""Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a Jew or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew" ). 2. Palestinians have been there for thousands of years. They were the Jews or Canaanites who stayed and later on converted to Christianity or Islam. I'm a Palestinian Christian from Bethlehem. My family heirloom passed on by my ancestors for generations is from the time of the Canaanites, yet my brothers can't live there but a New Yorker can move there simply for being a Jew, regardless of lack of connection to the land.
So we agree then that it's a stupid analogy? The Jews do consider Israel to be in their ancestral homeland, even if you think they are wrong, while the same is not true of Palestinians and Dearborn?
Palestinians self-identify as Arabs and Arabs colonized Palestine in the 7th century. This is uncontested history. There's no evidence at all that says the Palestinians in general have been there "for thousands of years." RFK in his trip to Palestine in 1948 wrote "The Jews point with pride to the fact that over 500,000 Arabs, in the 12 years between 1932 and 1944, came into Palestine to take advantage of living conditions existing in no other Arab state." Have those 500,000 Arabs been there for thousands of years? Dozens of Palestinian families freely admit they come from somewhere else, would you like some examples?
Most Jews are wrong to consider Israel their ancestral homeland. The exceptions are the small number of Palestinians who are Jews.
Palestinians identify as Palestinians. "Arab" is a linguistic classification.
There is robust genetic evidence that the Palestinians are the genetic descendants of the Canaanites, who inhabited the area before Judaism was even dreamed up. Their ancestors have been there for thousands of years.
I disagree with you. It's a perfect analogy! You saying that Palestinians are generally Arabs is a bad and wrong definition. It's like saying all who speak English are English. Palestinians are not Lebanese, Syrian, Saudis, Iraqis, ...etc. Why don't you look up why DNA testing in Israhell is only permitted by a court order? https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dammi-israeli-the-genetic-origins-of-the-palestinians/
" The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is being approached incorrectly. This is because Palestinians are not Arab. They are culturally Arabized Jews/Israelites."
Debating this issue with a Zionist is like debating cleanness with a pig. Best thing to do is leave him alone. Especially when he is a shamed to state his name.
I gotchu, bro. Article 1 of the Constitution of Palestine says "Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation. Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve." It also contains multiple references to the "Arab Palestinian people", bro. Bro, if you don't think Palestinians are generally Arabs you better take it up with them, bro.
I think that the argument is that if Palestinian Arabs will become a majority in Israel, then there would be a very real risk of them eventually persecuting and mistreating Israeli Jews. And even with strong constitutional protections, all one needs is a military coup or something of that sort for the whole structure to collapse.
Well stated Robert, factual and comprehensive intelligently written. The Zionist are great in inventing lies to justify their political aspiration. Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslim, in addition to the so called "Jews" from Eastern Europe and other opportunists are victims of the expansionist Zionist movement who is becoming surrogate to the American imperialism represented by Corporate America and the military complex.
Yeah bro I hate how expansionist those Zionists are. Unlike the Arabs, who never colonized anywhere, bro. Look how much Arab land the Zionists stole, bro:
Robust genetic studies prove that the Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, the earliest inhabitants of the Levant for whom we have records. Their ancestors have been there since before Judaism was invented.
Robust genetic studies prove that the Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, the earliest inhabitants of the Levant for whom we have records. Their ancestors have been there since before Judaism was invented.
They speak Arabic because of conquests by other Arabic speakers but that doesn't alter the fact that they themselves didn't come from elsewhere in the ME. They are indigenous to the Levant and their DNA proves that.
This piece by the Progressive Jew is one of his best and shows at least some real knowledge of the history of the conflict. He skips a lot of important stuff, but I especially liked his point about the Balfour Declaration, this was not Balfour or the British government’s decision to make.
It only shows how the then “great powers” decided the fates of millions. The same process created most of the existing states in the area. Legitimacy? If they could create Jordan and Iraq and decide the boundaries of Syria and Lebanon …why couldn’t they couldn’t create an Israel?
Is Whether they should have or shouldn’t relevant going forward?
More significant in terms of “legitimacy” was the treaty of Versailles which did offer Jews and other identified groups a homeland in the lands ruled by the Ottomans. Some got their states and some did not. Where is Kurdistan?
I don’t see why genetic information matters. Any understanding of the history of the region shows tremendous forced and unforced population movements going back to Byzantium and continuing through the Ottomans. Given its history, What in the world could “Indigenous” mean in this part of the Middle East?
There is some genetic evidence linking European Jews to ancient Israel and I’d be shocked if there wasn’t the same kind of evidence for some Palestinians. So what?
Just as Islam says that Muhammad ascended to heaven from Jerusalem my religion tells me about my relationship to the same city. Does anyone belief that’s how we settle international conflict.
As the economy improved in the late 19th century and into the 20th, there was an immigration into what the British named Transjordan. Many of those Arabic speakers first self identified as Arab then Syrian and later, post WW1, some as Palestinian. However there is good evidence that beginning in the early 19th century among elites there was a clear and growing identity as Palestinian. Remember, This was before there was an Italy or a Germany or many South American counties. And that tells us what?
Maybe more later but
Neither history or genetics will tell us how to build a better future for Israelis and Palestinians.
What we can be sure of is that the Israel’s aren’t going anywhere and shouldn’t. But Israeli’s will never have peace unless the Palestinian people are able to create a society where people and their culture can thrive.
If don’t think that is possible look at Scotland or Ireland or Germany
So what do Rosenthal et al want Israeli’s to do? Do they have a vision for the future than is better than the present?
Does anyone think it’s realistic to expect the citizens of Israel to leave and/or give up the country they have created?
Mr Rosenthal should read a good history book.
Shouldn’t the question really be about the future and how 10 million Israelis and about 9 million Palestinian “refugees”coexist without killing each other. (According to the UN 9 million Palestinians…..genocide?)
Just curious why are any of the states created after WW1 more legitimate than Israel?
I think that is the wrong question. The right questions are about what a better future looks like.
It reallycwaste of time to talk rational with some an unknown who fabri ate and lies about the history. Ziknist doctornated the Bible to suit your intent.
LOL bro if you want MidEast peace, you can start by stopping the attempts to rewrite history to make Arab colonizers "indigenous natives." Hundreds of thousands of Arabs immigrated to Palestine in the 20th century alone, and they rejected partition because like most colonizers they wanted all of the land for themselves and themselves alone. Your historical rewrite "forgot" to mention the Peel Commission Plan, which would have given the indigenous Jews far less land than the Arabs, but the Arabs STILL rejected it because they wanted the whole thing.
If you want peace, lose this "we're victims of foreign colonizers and the evil Jews stole our homeland" BS. It's perpetuating hatreds and spreading lies.
Here's how you make peace! Just tell the Palestinians that they're right about everything and they've never done anything wrong and their homeland was totally stolen from them by evil colonizing Zionists and they should keep fighting forever until they get all of it for themselves and push the Zionists out of the Middle East. That's how you make peace, dude!
False. Robust genetic studies show that the Palestinians are the genetic descendants of the Canaanites, who inhabited the Levant before Judaism was even started. Only the Lebanese show more homology with Canaanite DNA than the Palestinians do. The genetic evidence proves that the Palestinians' ancestors have been there for thousands of years.
Lots of folks have Canaanite DNA, Ros, and Canaanites are from all over the Levant. That doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of Arabs get to just waltz into Palestine in the 1940s and declare themselves the indigenous natives.
According to a 2010 study by Behar et al. titled "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people", in one analysis, Palestinians tested clustered genetically close to Bedouins, Jordanians and Saudi Arabians which was described as "consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula". That's genetic studies, brah. Your criteria, not mine, brah.
"Only the Lebanese show more homology with Canaanite DNA than the Palestinians do. "
Oh shit, brah. Guess all those Palestinians better clear out for the true indigenous natives, the Lebanese!
Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are descendants of the Canaanites, Winnie.
Thousands of Arabs did not settle in Palestine in the 1940s. On the contrary, some 750,000 indigenous Palestinians got driven out at gunpoint by Zionazis.
You know who doesn't have ANY Canaanite DNA, Winnie? 97.5% of Ashkenazi Jews...the Zionazis who invaded the Levant and drove 750,000 indigenous Palestinians out in the Nakba.
Now run along, Winifred.
That's a stupid analogy. Dearborn, Michigan is not the ancient ancestral home of the Palestinian people. I thought you were supposed to be a Jew? Don't you know the first thing about Jewish history?
It isn't a stupid analogy. Most of the current Jews are not descendants of the Israelites, so it's not their ancient ancestral home ( Look up the 1980 Jewish Almanac ""Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a Jew or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew" ). 2. Palestinians have been there for thousands of years. They were the Jews or Canaanites who stayed and later on converted to Christianity or Islam. I'm a Palestinian Christian from Bethlehem. My family heirloom passed on by my ancestors for generations is from the time of the Canaanites, yet my brothers can't live there but a New Yorker can move there simply for being a Jew, regardless of lack of connection to the land.
So we agree then that it's a stupid analogy? The Jews do consider Israel to be in their ancestral homeland, even if you think they are wrong, while the same is not true of Palestinians and Dearborn?
Palestinians self-identify as Arabs and Arabs colonized Palestine in the 7th century. This is uncontested history. There's no evidence at all that says the Palestinians in general have been there "for thousands of years." RFK in his trip to Palestine in 1948 wrote "The Jews point with pride to the fact that over 500,000 Arabs, in the 12 years between 1932 and 1944, came into Palestine to take advantage of living conditions existing in no other Arab state." Have those 500,000 Arabs been there for thousands of years? Dozens of Palestinian families freely admit they come from somewhere else, would you like some examples?
Most Jews are wrong to consider Israel their ancestral homeland. The exceptions are the small number of Palestinians who are Jews.
Palestinians identify as Palestinians. "Arab" is a linguistic classification.
There is robust genetic evidence that the Palestinians are the genetic descendants of the Canaanites, who inhabited the area before Judaism was even dreamed up. Their ancestors have been there for thousands of years.
I see we have another student of Palestinian history who needs to read the Constitution of the State of Palestine.
I see we have another troll who makes irrelevant arguments.
You haven't read it then?
I disagree with you. It's a perfect analogy! You saying that Palestinians are generally Arabs is a bad and wrong definition. It's like saying all who speak English are English. Palestinians are not Lebanese, Syrian, Saudis, Iraqis, ...etc. Why don't you look up why DNA testing in Israhell is only permitted by a court order? https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dammi-israeli-the-genetic-origins-of-the-palestinians/
" The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is being approached incorrectly. This is because Palestinians are not Arab. They are culturally Arabized Jews/Israelites."
Have you read the Constitution of the State of the Palestine?
I'm not going to waste anymore of my time. You're too damn brainwashed! Have a good day.
Debating this issue with a Zionist is like debating cleanness with a pig. Best thing to do is leave him alone. Especially when he is a shamed to state his name.
I gotchu, bro. Article 1 of the Constitution of Palestine says "Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation. Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve." It also contains multiple references to the "Arab Palestinian people", bro. Bro, if you don't think Palestinians are generally Arabs you better take it up with them, bro.
I'll take it that's a "no" then? You should. It's extremely informative reading.
No but I read the Constitution of the State of Israel, which saved my time and effort because it does not exist.
You should take a look at Palestine's. It's very interesting.
I think that the argument is that if Palestinian Arabs will become a majority in Israel, then there would be a very real risk of them eventually persecuting and mistreating Israeli Jews. And even with strong constitutional protections, all one needs is a military coup or something of that sort for the whole structure to collapse.
Well stated Robert, factual and comprehensive intelligently written. The Zionist are great in inventing lies to justify their political aspiration. Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslim, in addition to the so called "Jews" from Eastern Europe and other opportunists are victims of the expansionist Zionist movement who is becoming surrogate to the American imperialism represented by Corporate America and the military complex.
Yeah bro I hate how expansionist those Zionists are. Unlike the Arabs, who never colonized anywhere, bro. Look how much Arab land the Zionists stole, bro:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GjHO2Z7XQAATPIe?format=png&name=900x900
Do not bro me Zionist apologist.
How does it feel to accuse others of imperialism when your Arab ancestors colonized the entire Middle East, brah?
Robust genetic studies prove that the Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, the earliest inhabitants of the Levant for whom we have records. Their ancestors have been there since before Judaism was invented.
Suck it up, Winnie.
What a dumb comment! The Palestinians NEVER colonized any country! Unlike Israel!
The Arabs colonized the entire Middle East, bro, and as you learned above, Palestinians are Arabs. Transitive property bro.
But the Palestinians never colonized any country, as Amal said.
The Palestinians are Arabs and Arabs colonized the entire Middle East. Rebrands don't make someone not a colonizer, brah.
Arab is a linguistic classification, not an ethnic one.
The Arab empire took over the entire Middle East, Ros. Crack a history book sometime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests
Don't call me Ros, Winnie.
Robust genetic studies prove that the Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, the earliest inhabitants of the Levant for whom we have records. Their ancestors have been there since before Judaism was invented.
They speak Arabic because of conquests by other Arabic speakers but that doesn't alter the fact that they themselves didn't come from elsewhere in the ME. They are indigenous to the Levant and their DNA proves that.
You're an apologist for Israeli genocide against Christian and Muslim Palestinians
Sup, Greta! You'd know all about being an apologist for genocide, you were tweeting how happy you were about October 7th.
"Today, Palestine has risen. No matter the outcome, Israel has lost."
https://x.com/Truegreta/status/1711140277677666356
Was October 7th the best day of your life or just top 5?
This piece by the Progressive Jew is one of his best and shows at least some real knowledge of the history of the conflict. He skips a lot of important stuff, but I especially liked his point about the Balfour Declaration, this was not Balfour or the British government’s decision to make.
It only shows how the then “great powers” decided the fates of millions. The same process created most of the existing states in the area. Legitimacy? If they could create Jordan and Iraq and decide the boundaries of Syria and Lebanon …why couldn’t they couldn’t create an Israel?
Is Whether they should have or shouldn’t relevant going forward?
More significant in terms of “legitimacy” was the treaty of Versailles which did offer Jews and other identified groups a homeland in the lands ruled by the Ottomans. Some got their states and some did not. Where is Kurdistan?
I don’t see why genetic information matters. Any understanding of the history of the region shows tremendous forced and unforced population movements going back to Byzantium and continuing through the Ottomans. Given its history, What in the world could “Indigenous” mean in this part of the Middle East?
There is some genetic evidence linking European Jews to ancient Israel and I’d be shocked if there wasn’t the same kind of evidence for some Palestinians. So what?
Just as Islam says that Muhammad ascended to heaven from Jerusalem my religion tells me about my relationship to the same city. Does anyone belief that’s how we settle international conflict.
As the economy improved in the late 19th century and into the 20th, there was an immigration into what the British named Transjordan. Many of those Arabic speakers first self identified as Arab then Syrian and later, post WW1, some as Palestinian. However there is good evidence that beginning in the early 19th century among elites there was a clear and growing identity as Palestinian. Remember, This was before there was an Italy or a Germany or many South American counties. And that tells us what?
Maybe more later but
Neither history or genetics will tell us how to build a better future for Israelis and Palestinians.
What we can be sure of is that the Israel’s aren’t going anywhere and shouldn’t. But Israeli’s will never have peace unless the Palestinian people are able to create a society where people and their culture can thrive.
If don’t think that is possible look at Scotland or Ireland or Germany
So what do Rosenthal et al want Israeli’s to do? Do they have a vision for the future than is better than the present?
Does anyone think it’s realistic to expect the citizens of Israel to leave and/or give up the country they have created?
Mr Rosenthal should read a good history book.
Shouldn’t the question really be about the future and how 10 million Israelis and about 9 million Palestinian “refugees”coexist without killing each other. (According to the UN 9 million Palestinians…..genocide?)
Just curious why are any of the states created after WW1 more legitimate than Israel?
I think that is the wrong question. The right questions are about what a better future looks like.
It reallycwaste of time to talk rational with some an unknown who fabri ate and lies about the history. Ziknist doctornated the Bible to suit your intent.